hoakley October 16, 2023 Macs, Technology

Sonoma’s changes to iCloud may stop Time Machine backups completing

For some, upgrading to Sonoma brings a slew of problems with iCloud and iCloud Drive. As these can spill over to stop Time Machine backups from completing, their consequences can worsen your troubles.

As I’ve explained, Sonoma changes iCloud and iCloud Drive, notably in how they behave when Optimize Mac Storage is turned off. Before macOS 14, regardless of that setting, you could evict (remove the local copy of) files stored in iCloud Drive. Sonoma fixes that bug, and now behaves as Apple had originally intended: when Optimize Mac Storage is turned off, local copies are kept on your Mac of all the files you have stored in iCloud Drive, and you can no longer evict them into iCloud.

Some who have upgraded early to Sonoma have reported that, although their Mac’s settings hadn’t changed, with Optimize Mac Storage turned off, their Macs have downloaded fresh copies of every file stored in iCloud Drive, sometimes taking several days to complete. In some cases, while their Mac has still been trying to complete that large sync, Time Machine has been unable to complete any backups, reporting that those files were still synchronising.

What can you try?

There are only five controls you have over iCloud Drive:

Sync This Mac, in System Settings > [your name] > iCloud > iCloud Drive;
Putting Desktop & Documents Folders in iCloud, in the same control;
Optimize Mac Storage, in System Settings > [your name] > iCloud;
Kill the process named bird in Activity Monitor;
Take your Mac offline by shutting it down.

This isn’t a good time to change the Desktop & Documents Folders setting, and certainly not turning it on when it has been off previously, as that will only increase the number of files to be synced with iCloud. If you have had that setting turned on previously, turning it off can result in removal of all your current Desktop and Documents folder contents to iCloud Drive, which again only makes your problems worse.

Stopping your Mac from syncing with iCloud is, at best, only going to postpone the problem, so that should also be avoided if possible. Shutting your Mac down should be harmless, provided that it can establish a good connection with iCloud when it’s started up again, and that can sometimes bring the sync to a successful conclusion. If you have another Mac available, you could try setting it up as a local content caching server before starting up the Mac with a problem. The server may then be able to download the files required to sync more reliably.

Killing bird shouldn’t cause the problem to become any worse, neither is it likely to solve it, though.

Turning Optimize Mac Storage on could help, by not trying to download a copy of every file in iCloud Drive. That could enable syncing to complete more quickly, allowing you to manually download files that are stored only in iCloud Drive.

Completing the backup

Once iCloud Drive has finished syncing, Time Machine should be able to complete a backup, including all locally-stored copies of files in iCloud Drive. If that still leaves some files stored in iCloud only, you can then download them manually ready for the next backup.

Continuing problems

If your Mac seems unable to complete syncing and still won’t back up using Time Machine, you should contact Apple Support, who can contact Apple’s iCloud engineers as necessary. Sometimes they need to intervene and fix your account storage so that it works properly.

I wish you success.

29Comments

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1

Gary on October 16, 2023 at 9:26 am

I have had iCloud Sync problems with Sonoma on my Mac Studio. Actually everything seemed fine but all the iCloud symbols were indicating download and also iCloud was stuck on a sync never to finish. I tried a few things and now working okay but it’s such a black box who knows if my steps worked. Glen Fleishman has just written of a multi month iCloud problem despite Apples support – it’s now resolved but no one seems quite sure what happened including Apple!

See https://tidbits.com/2023/10/12/cloudy-with-a-chance-of-insanity-unsticking-icloud-drive/ if you have not already seen this article

By the way love your painting articles – often download something that takes my fancy in your blogs for wallpaper.

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- 2
  
  hoakley on October 16, 2023 at 11:31 am
  
  Thank you. Yes, I am well aware of Glen’s long running problems, which appear relatively unusual prior to Sonoma. My current concern is that many users who didn’t have a problem with iCloud Drive seem to have developed serious issues since upgrading to Sonoma, and that may be different in terms of its cause and solution.
  Howard.
  
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  - 3
    
    Gary on October 16, 2023 at 10:18 pm
    
    Yes I was slightly off topic. To echo comments made in this thread Apple have very limited published comments about what to do with these cloud sync issues. When I had had my issues last week not for first time I wondered what am doing wrong because others report faultless operation of iCloud sync. I also wondered (yet again) if I should continue with iCloud, particularly the Desktop & Documents sync. It’s not as though the Files App on iOS is so elegant compared to the alternatives!
    
    My impression is some users avoid iCloud sync not because they worry about file loss; it’s the irritation, inconvenience and time wasted if you lead a busy life and your computing is an integral part of your work life.
    
    A word in favour of iCloud sync. I did a clean install a few months back. It was a wonderful seamless experience, … once completed, my folders and files started downloading from iCloud and no resort to Time Machine backups or anything else! All done fairly quickly! So that’s a bonus, but how often do you need to do that!?
    
    PS. I did do a hast check to see how my Time Machine is going. Thankfully. all looks good.
    
    LikeLiked by 1 person
    - 4
      
      hoakley on October 16, 2023 at 10:22 pm
      
      Thank you. I think Apple just leaves us to deal with Apple Support, who are often excellent, or to fend for ourselves.
      Howard.
      
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5

Scott Schmidt on October 16, 2023 at 11:32 am

Thank you Howard. Your article clarifies the issue, and although it has not yet solved my problem, it’s helped me understand what’s going on.

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- 6
  
  hoakley on October 16, 2023 at 11:35 am
  
  Thank you.
  Howard.
  
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7

SarahB on October 16, 2023 at 11:53 am

I ended up removing the public beta of Sonoma 14.1 since safari kept getting worse. It could take so long or completely freeze up trying to clear the cache. So did a fresh install of Sonoma 14.0. Even then so tired of apple changing settings without me giving permission.

Like that one Optimize Mac Storage. It’s always the first thing I check after a fresh install since I never use it but it gets turned on by default. Before when doing a fresh install before getting to the desktop, it would have those setting windows you click through and one let you pick if you wanted that turned on or not. Sad that went away and now it’s just turned on by default.

This time though after I clicked it off it turned on again. Then I turned it off and it turned on again a 3rd time. Even Find My gets turned on by default and I have to turn that off. I’m so fed up with this. Feels like being an admin means nothing anymore. I keep making wifi inactive and disabling it but so often on restart it’s turned on again. I even have in settings an admin has to approve changes to wifi or turning it on. But those settings do nothing.

My Time Machine has been working ok. I use iCloud Drive but don’t sync documents and desktop.

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8

Tachycineta on October 16, 2023 at 3:51 pm

My concern with continued? issues with iCloud is how it may affect people’s perception and confidence regarding the “safe” storage of documents.

This site fills an important role in the Mac compendium of knowledge. But the “average” Mac user may not seek out this site. So document storage (and also backups) could be impacted by this reported behavior. And the average Mac user may not know this until it’s too late. That’s can be a real confidence shaker.

I have a BTO Mac Studio arriving in a couple of weeks. It undoubtedly will come with Sonoma. A thoughtful decision will need to be made if rolling back to Ventura is indicated.

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- 9
  
  hoakley on October 16, 2023 at 5:20 pm
  
  Thank you. Yes, I’m concerned for those who don’t get to hear about these problems until they happen.
  However, I don’t think this will affect your new Studio. When you set that up and it runs its first sync with iCloud, it won’t be downloading all the files already stored locally, which seems to be the trigger for these problems. Your Studio’s first sync should be much the same in Sonoma as it would be in Ventura.
  I wish you great pleasure from the Studio – I love mine, and it’s only an old M1 Max.
  Howard.
  
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10

2J on October 17, 2023 at 6:37 pm

Thank you Howard for this helpful update. Can I trouble you with a slightly off-topic inquiry: I’ve decommissioned an old APTC and am looking for a replacement for hosting network Time Machine backups. It seems that Apple’s only first-party solution unfortunately continues to be using a full-fledged Mac (perhaps coupled with an external SSD) with file sharing + “Share as a Time Machine backup destination” enabled. You wrote on 14 July, 2021 that you prefer this approach, and I’d like to ask if you still stand by this recommendation, or has anything changed? Would you consider any third party alternatives?

eclecticlight.co/2021/07/14/time-has-run-out-on-time-capsules/

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- 11
  
  hoakley on October 17, 2023 at 8:14 pm
  
  It all depends what you want.
  My first preference for any local backup remains a locally-attached drive, particularly when using Time Machine.
  If you need to back up over a network, you can either set this up yourself using an older (but not decrepit!) desktop Mac, such as a Mac mini, with local storage, or using a commercial NAS. Unless you need the other services of a NAS, if you have a suitable Mac, it’s very easy and completely compatible. The server can also be used for Content Caching, perhaps, and shared files.
  There remain some excellent NAS suppliers. In addition to the usual list of the better manufacturers, I’d now always look at what Asustor has to offer. I’ve reviewed three of their NAS systems, and they provide excellent value for modern products. I’ve recently looked at one of their first solid-state NAS, that takes NVMe SSDs, and was over the moon with it. Compared to conventional systems it’s really slimline, like a fairly substantial router, and runs silent apart from its quiet fan. But to get the most from that you need a faster Ethernet network, 5 or 10 gig. They cover the whole range, from basic 2-disk systems to enterprise units, and take pride in supporting Macs and macOS.
  If you subscribe to MacLife or MacFormat (electronic editions), you can read my reviews there.
  So you have a good choice now. Time Capsules are sadly missed, but there’s no problem in finding suitable replacements.
  Howard.
  
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12

2J on October 18, 2023 at 11:25 pm

Thank you Howard, I appreciate your insights.

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13

Gary on October 19, 2023 at 1:14 am

I swapped my aging 2013 iMac for a Mac Studio. This of course was associated with Ventura and Sonoma. I have never had so many gremlins. At the moment it is hit and miss if my external drives for Time Machine mount – also I have a gremlin with coreservices; “menu” can’t be opened because Apple cannot check for malicious software. Problem is I have no idea what “menu” is. I imagine it’s the remnants of some application I have deleted. I am starting to have very fond memories of Catalina! 🤣

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- 14
  
  hoakley on October 19, 2023 at 1:16 pm
  
  I’m sorry to hear that. It sounds as if some older software has been migrated to it, but trying to track that down isn’t going to be easy.
  Howard.
  
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15

Ben on October 20, 2023 at 1:08 pm

I have had TM issues with Sonoma — backups failing because a file couldn’t be copied; but no suggestion that it was related to iCloud Drive or syncing. The files weren’t in iCloud, and were mostly “read-only” files that I’ve had for years.

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- 16
  
  hoakley on October 20, 2023 at 7:57 pm
  
  I’m sorry to hear that. What was the error given?
  Howard.
  
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  - 17
    
    Ben on October 21, 2023 at 8:48 am
    
    “The backup couldn’t be completed because could not be copied.”
    I’ve wiped the backup drive and started again (I have various other things to fall back on). It seems to be working; so the cause could be some disk issue, but the coincidence is glaring.
    
    LikeLiked by 1 person
    - 18
      
      hoakley on October 21, 2023 at 8:51 am
      
      Hmm. A very unhelpful error message, as ever. I suspect the only way to discover the cause would be in the log, which is another saga in itself, although my Mints or T2M2 should have revealed something there.
      Let’s hope that has done the trick.
      Howard.
      
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    - 19
      
      Ben on October 21, 2023 at 8:53 am
      
      Sorry – I used > < — “because (filename) could not be copied”. Still not very helpful.
      
      LikeLiked by 1 person
    - 20
      
      hoakley on October 21, 2023 at 8:58 am
      
      There are thousands of reasons that a file couldn’t be copied. Simply to tell the user that a file couldn’t be copied doesn’t help them find a solution, and why TM couldn’t complete the rest of the backup is another question. Errors do occur during backups, but a fatal error like that deserves more than a vague complaint that it didn’t work out as expected.
      Howard.
      
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21

whidbeythedog on October 21, 2023 at 11:34 am

After two weeks of having the same problem, I FINALLY FIXED THIS PROBLEM. Here’s what did the trick:

I have a Mac with three accounts on it, each one linked to a separate Apple ID. My main account is used every day, but the others (for my wife and her mom) are rarely used. When I opened up one of these accounts after upgrading to Sonoma, there was a red dot error showing for the iCloud settings saying that “some iCloud data could not be synced”. Apparently iCloud needed a password, which I entered. The red dot error was satisfied, and the iCloud sync progressed. I returned to my Mac account, and presto! Time Machine had kicked off and was running great. I also checked that I had “Optimize Mac Storage” turned OFF in all three accounts, but I don’t think this had any bearing on the situation because that’s how it had been all the while when I was having TM problems.

LikeLiked by 2 people
- 22
  
  hoakley on October 21, 2023 at 1:21 pm
  
  Well done! Three accounts on the same Mac? That sends shivers down my spine!
  Howard.
  
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  - 23
    
    Scott Schmidt on October 21, 2023 at 1:26 pm
    
    Howard, yes, all three accounts were on the same Mac Studio. Three separate OS logins each one with a unique AppleID. One account is mine, which I use every day, but the other two are only rarely used. For people having this problem, they should look at what’s happening on any other account on the Mac. There’s a good chance they will find the offending item there. Rgds.
    
    LikeLiked by 1 person
    - 24
      
      hoakley on October 21, 2023 at 1:29 pm
      
      Thank you. As far as I’m aware, having more than one account on a Mac is relatively unusual; the problems brought about by Sonoma affect single accounts, as well as the few with multiples, and arise from the change in Optimize Mac Storage, and the full re-sync that can occur after upgrading. As with other iCloud problems, it’s not surprising that multiple accounts can amplify that.
      Howard.
      
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25

Foo on November 2, 2023 at 3:09 am

Mentioned something on your other article – but if this is a conversion process from the old to the new File Provider (and I gathered some evidence that lends me to believe it is) it may be just that this process needs to complete and then everything will be fine. When I saw some activity like this on my Sonoma system, both fileproviderd and bird were using CPU (along with what looks like a plug-in for File Provider but oddly called something like cloud docs?). Looking at things in fs_usage showed some SQLite database writes and flushes occurring. If I had to bet, I would say this is a “handshake” from what was in the old iCloud Drive database to what belongs in the new File Provider database. It should be proportional to the file/dir count you have in iCloud Drive but it should complete in time (mine did).

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- 26
  
  hoakley on November 2, 2023 at 11:56 am
  
  “this process needs to complete and then everything will be fine”
  That is my conclusion. But when it takes days to complete, and the Mac is almost unusable over that period, some users aren’t able or prepared to wait that long. Particularly when this has occurred without any warning at all, not even the mention of a change.
  I agree that on most systems, the overhead in conversion has been so small as to pass unnoticed. But on others – particularly (perhaps exclusively) those who have evicted files when Optimise Mac Storage has been turned off – this has been much more than that. There has also been clear evidence from several who have been affected that the extended attributes of their stub files have been lost in the process, and replaced with the fewer extended attributes downloaded from iCloud Drive. You and I might not worry about that, but for some users that is tantamount to disaster.
  Howard.
  
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27

Foo on November 2, 2023 at 3:09 pm

I did a test – create a file with data on Sonoma. Put a custom icon on it. Let it sync. Then fill my drive up as much as I dare. Eventually, that file got evicted and the dataless placeholder did not contain the ResourceFork where the custom icon is stored. Download the file to make it present – the custom icon (and ResourceFork) are back. Seems like a limitation in dataless files. If they are dataless, maybe that implies no data in either fork of the file (Data or Resource)?

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- 28
  
  hoakley on November 2, 2023 at 3:13 pm
  
  So are you saying that iCloud Drive does now store Resource forks? If not, where was it stored after eviction?
  Howard
  
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29

Michael Tsai - Blog - Sonoma, iCloud Drive, and Time Machine on December 19, 2023 at 4:02 pm

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